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doubleopi
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Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Canby, Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: Quarabs |
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Hi,
Does anyone have much experience crossing QH's and Arab's? I work at a farm and they have three studs, two pure arab (one egyptian, one polish) and one Quarab. They also have one arab mare (Polish and spanish I think) and two QH mares (one running bred and one more of a halter type).
Anyway, I was just wondering what type of arabs cross best on what type of QH and what sort of experiences people have had with these crosses.
Thanks |
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Shetani
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Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 50
Location: Central Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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I would think that any type of Arab would cross well on a QH, as long as both mare and stallion have good conformation and attitude (which, if you're breeding them, they should). If you want to refine a blocky mare, breed to a finer stallion, and so forth.
I showed against a beautiful buckskin Quarab in 4H. That horse could and would do anything, and a wonderful disposition too.
Christel in Central Wisconsin |
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doubleopi
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Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Canby, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, another question that ties into Quarabs. Can a baby sired by a half arab who's dam is a pure QH be registered as half arab? AHA seems to say no, but the owners are convinced that the baby can be. It will be colored so could be registered in a color association I'm sure (sire Palomino, Dam Cremello), but half Arab? Also, from what I've read the AHA says that to be eligible for half arab the baby has to have one purebred parent, but what about two halfs bred together so the baby'd be technically a half arab, just wouldn't have one pure parent.
I'm so full of questions!  |
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ArabFan
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Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| doubleopi wrote: | Ok, another question that ties into Quarabs. Can a baby sired by a half arab who's dam is a pure QH be registered as half arab? AHA seems to say no, but the owners are convinced that the baby can be. It will be colored so could be registered in a color association I'm sure (sire Palomino, Dam Cremello), but half Arab? Also, from what I've read the AHA says that to be eligible for half arab the baby has to have one purebred parent, but what about two halfs bred together so the baby'd be technically a half arab, just wouldn't have one pure parent.
I'm so full of questions! |
The AHA's half/Anglo-Arabian rules and regs are pretty straightforward when it comes to this:
http://www.arabianhorses.org/registration/hareg/reg_hafaq.asp
Can a foal be registered as a Half-Arabian if the mare is a grade mare without any papers?
Foals are eligible for registration as long as one parent is an Arabian registered with the Arabian Horse Registry of America, Arabian Horse Association or the Canadian Arabian Horse Registry. The other parent (non-Arabian) must be another breed, registered or grade, but cannot be an unregistered/without papers Arabian. The other parent also cannot be an Anglo-Arabian or registered Thoroughbred.
and from the rules:
http://www.arabianhorses.org/registration/reg_rules.asp#1002
| Quote: | ARTICLE 1002. REQUIREMENTS AND PROCEDURES FOR DOMESTIC HALF-ARABIAN HORSES
A horse conceived and born in the United States, or Mexico may be registered as a half Arabian if the following requirements are met:
1. One parent of the horse is registered as a purebred Arabian horse with either the Arabian Horse Association or the Canadian Arabian Horse Registry (for imports refer to Article 1006.); and
2. The non-Arabian parent of the horse is not a registered Anglo-Arabian or a registered Thoroughbred or an unregistered purebred Arabian, and
3. The requirements of Article 1008. (42-day Rule), Article 1009 (artificial insemination) and Article 1021 (embryo/oocyte transfer) are met.
4. Alternatively, the horse may be registered in the Half-Arabian Horse Registry if the horse would qualify for registration in the Anglo-Arabian Horse Registry except that it has more than 75% Arabian blood.
5. An application for registration, on the appropriate form provided by the AHA Registry, has been completed, signed by the appropriate recorded owner(s) (or by the person whom the recorded owner(s) has authorized in writing to sign the application) and filed with the AHA Registry;
6. A mule, hinney, or any animal other than a horse is not eligible for registration.
7. If a sire or dam is dual registered with AHA and another breed registry, the Half-Arabian or Anglo-Arabian Horse Registry must use the AHA registration number and recorded ownership information to register a foal. (BOD 1/03)
8. The registration fee for domestic half-Arabian horses has been paid. |
It wasn't all that long ago when the Arabian side had to be a stallion; a half-Arabian whose Arab parent was his mother wasn't eligible!
So no - a horse bred from two part-Arabians isn't eligible for registration in the Half Arab Registry. |
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doubleopi
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Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Canby, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Why is that? It seems logical (to me) that if the baby is at least genetically half arab and both parents are registered as at least half arab that it should work, so why doesn't the registry allow that? |
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x factor fan
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 326
Location: Pacific NW
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Once you get beyond the first generation cross the assortment of chromosomes gets hard to sort out.
A "half arab" will get half arab chromosomes, and half (lets say Quarter Horse) chromosomes, and from what I've seen, this cross results in a intermediate type. The resulting cross is lighter than the Quarter Horse, stockier than the Arab.
Once you start crossing half X half the game changes. The egg and sperm produced could contain nothing but the Quarter Horse chromosomes, nothing but the Arab chromosomes, something in between.
You most likely won't get anything that looks like the intermediate type, and this can result in a horse with very miss matched body parts. Think of a horse with a stocky tank like body with little teeny tiny feet. Or heavy head on a swan like Arab neck. |
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missmagus
Active Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 390
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I've been breeding Half ArabQuarter Horses for 7 years - and the cross can be outstanding - however I think breeding some like characteristics is imperative. I breed for Half Arab reiners - and we have been successful.
There are many many outstanding QH/Arab crosses, and they don't have extreme type from each breed. I'm sure there may be some but this may be caused by breeding extreme type to extreme type which, to me, is a no-no.
For Reining - I use a superior reining stallion that has competed extensively and has been absolutely successful - he is 14.2H, heavy and deep in the body - low neck set, although not excessively low, he has great legs and good feet. He has proven that he is talented. The Arabs I cross have lower neck sets - are very balanced in the body, have deep, substantial bodies, have great bone, low hocks, and excellent feet. In other words not the typical Arab show horse - but these are mares that I bred for racing. They are very good minded.
It does take some thought, and knowledge, to do this right. I think it's an absolutely superior cross. Another thing is that the QH should be a quiet one, and I know there are those that aren't, so that they can take the "edge" off the Arab.
Here's one that I bred -
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www.forgottenlane.com
Home of Hollywood White
3X NRHA World Champion Reining Horse |
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missmagus
Active Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 390
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: |
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About the Half Arab to Half ARab breeding. You're right it isn't allowed at this point - however it does create a horse that is 50% ARab and 50% other breed. THe funny thing is that in Anglo Arabs - which is another registry owned by the Arab Association. In Anglos you can have as little as 25% Arab and still register the animal as Anglo (the other breed is TB).
There are some powerful folks that are now questioning why we couldn't do this! I feel that if someone pushed that it may be overturned. It would give the breeders of the HA's more opportunity in breeding - and in reining it would be a great thing. Right now I consider the HA's we breed to be "end products" so I'm always happier to have colts - we geld them at 5 months no matter what - and they're great. Most folks want geldings to show - so I really would rather have them. A few folks have come to me to get a colt for a stallion - but I discourage that and tell them to go out and get a great QH or Arab stallion that is a known reiner (unfortunately not many ARabs in that category).
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www.forgottenlane.com
Home of Hollywood White
3X NRHA World Champion Reining Horse |
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doubleopi
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Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Canby, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The resulting cross is lighter than the Quarter Horse, stockier than the Arab |
Ha, just a kind of funny observation, but the purebred arab mare is stockier than the half arab stud, who's half QH. Many people think she's a QH until they see her head or see her move. It's really funny. Of course then they're all "Oh an Arab is worthless blah blah blah" It makes me mad. She's built like a working horse because that's what she's supposed to be.
Ok, sorry about the ranting. |
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kim
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 132
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| doubleopi wrote: | | Quote: | | The resulting cross is lighter than the Quarter Horse, stockier than the Arab |
Ha, just a kind of funny observation, but the purebred arab mare is stockier than the half arab stud, who's half QH. Many people think she's a QH until they see her head or see her move. It's really funny. Of course then they're all "Oh an Arab is worthless blah blah blah" It makes me mad. She's built like a working horse because that's what she's supposed to be.
Ok, sorry about the ranting. |
I also have one Arab mare who's always called "a QH with such a beautiful head"... but in fact she's doing WP and Reining and she's a lot apprechiated also among QH people (did I say that she has to do double as good as the QH). I a lot proud of her and since her registered competition name ends on "cattle" everyone knows she's Arabian. After the QH people saw her in the pattern they stopped talking stupid about her - though they wouldn't ever admit it, my mare did a whole lot better then all those QH!!!
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"You will pay for your improper use of dialogue!" - For once I have nothing to say...
Visit my horses at www.kimarabians.at |
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Avalondales Arabians
Yearling
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Ellsworth, MI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: |
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There are those individuals in every breed that sometime make us stand back and rethink the statement my horse is bred for this purpose. I think that in most cases a horse is only limited by the imagination of the owner/trainer... Arabians are actually very versatile horses. As with any horse proper training is key in creating a capable competitor. Up here in Northern Michigan I have had at least 3 calls from dyed in the wool Quarter Horse folks that are thinking of breeding to our stallion because:
Someone is out there winning Barrel Racing Competition on a 22 year old Straight Egyptian Mare that doesn't know when to give up...Both in regard to her age and that barrel racing is typically a "Quarter Horse Sport"...
Quite frankly I don't know if this a Northern Michigan Urban Legend as I don't barrel race, but if any of you know this person I would like to talk with her... It is what I have heard from Quarter Horse folk looking to buy a breeding...Tracy |
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