Color ?

[stc4qh]

What are the color choices of this mare's new foal?

Mare---bay
Sire of mare---red roan
Dam of mare---bay

Stud---sorrel
Sire of stud---chestnut
Dam of stud---unk

Thanks for any replies.

[NZ Appaloosas]

your bay is A?/E?, meaning it has at least one dominant agouti and at least one dominant extension (black on the points). The sorrell (chestnut) is either AA/ee, Aa/ee or aa/ee.

So, you have a shot at bay or chestnut/sorrell or black. Your chances will change on whether the horses are heterozygous or homozygous for agouti and extension.


Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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[stc4qh]

I know the color genetics are very scientific and I don't understand how it all works, therefore my question.

your bay is A?/E?, meaning it has at least one dominant agouti and at least one dominant extension (black on the points).

The mare has black points on ears, mane, tail, and legs.

[NZ Appaloosas]

The genetic recipe for bay can be one of several, and the horse still looks the same. It could be AaEe, AAEe, AaEE or AAEE. However, these recipes do not show up in change of shade or anything (unlike cream which will give you palomino when in single form and cremello in double form).

The sorrell/chestnut is easy. No black points, so it has to be "ee", as it would have black legs, ear rims, mane, tail (the points) if there was dominant extension present. However, he can be AAee, Aaee or aaee.

We know the bay mare has to have at least one E, and maybe two, based on the black legs. We know she has at least one A for agouti, maybe two, because if she was aaEE, she'd be black.

Your percentage 'chances' will vary, depending on exactly what the mare and sire have in their genetic recipe. I don't have the exact figures here, but you have more chances of bay than chestnut or black.

Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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[stc4qh]

Thank you for the explanation, I will expect to see a bay foal, if not, I will let you know.

[NZ Appaloosas]

Just remember, you can still get chestnut

Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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[NZ Appaloosas]

Oh, and don't forget, if the stallion is aa, you can also get black if the mare passes on an E.

Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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[stc4qh]

While we are talking color, what is the difference between chestnut and sorrel? The stud, his sire, grandsire, and gr.grandsire are all listed as chestnut. One of these is Sonny Dee Bar and by the pictures I've seen of him, he looks very reddish what I would call sorrel. So confusing.

[NZ Appaloosas]

Personally, I don't think there is a difference in the actual colour, that the usage is just a regional thing, with people from one area using one and people from another using the other.


Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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[x factor fan]

In the US it is regional. However, the English (TB) world calls red based horses chestnut.

Out west, a chestnut with flaxen mane or a lighter mane is called a sorrel. And some folks call all red based horses chestnut, and some call all red based horses sorrel.

And to further confuse matters, some folks call all young horses colts, lumping young male and young female horse together.

So the sorrel listed on the papers may have been a chestnut with flaxen mane, or it may have simply been a chestnut.

Confusing isn't it.

[stc4qh]

I'm glad you all cleared that up about sorrel and chestnut. Boy, it sure aggravates me when people talk about their "colts". Thanks everyone.

[Joker w]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for anything but a chestnut (sorrel) or bay, they are too dominant of colors.
Have a great foal anyway.

[stc4qh]

Thank you and it will be a nice foal no matter the color I'm sure. With all the line chestnuts on the stud's side, odds are it will a chestnut(sorrel).

[x factor fan]

Nope, the odds are 50/50

The sire is red/red

the mare is red/black

The sire can only donate a chromosome with the red factor

The mare can donate either a red, or a black.


So the possible combinations are:

red/red
red/black

Which would give you are red--chestnut or sorrel
or a black based color, most likely bay.

To further complicate matters the bay (agouti) gene lives on another chromosome. The mare is Bay so you know she carries it on at least one chromomose. So independent of the base color genes the mare is going to give her bay chromosome to 50% of her foals.


So of the 50% of the red/red foals from this cross, half will carry the bay gene, which will not show up at all, as bay works by diluting the body color of black based coat.

Of the 50% of the black/red foals, half of these will get the bay chromosome. Which gives 25% bay, and 25% not bay (black or brown)

This is only true if the mare has the only bay gene in the mix. She may have one copy of the bay gene, or two. Likewise for the chestnut sire, he may have one copy, or two copies.

Since the frequency of the bay (agouti) gene is very high in most horse populations the chances are very good that the chestnut sire has at least one bay to contribute to the mix.

So the chances are much higher to get a bay than a black.

Good luck no matter what color the foal is.

[doubleopi]