4 Yr old APHA stallion

RatherbRidin' · Weanling Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 9

could I have a critique on my boy. please excuse his feet, we are working on better angles. just wondering what you all thought of him.

He is coming along nicely U/S walk/trot.
what can you tell me about his pedigree?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ye+cowboy+bar+rebel

horsetrainer89 · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject:

He's got a cute face. Don't really like his hip for a 4 year old. It is a little pocky; not enough muscle. Can't really tell a whole lot more about him since his saddle is on. That hides a lot of conformation faults if he has any. I am not sure I would use him for breeding if you know nothing about his pedigree. I would also like to ask why he is only walking and trotting at 4 years old? My guy is 3 and on his 2nd ride ever(which was in April), we were already loping.

JR · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject:

from what I can see he's not badly put together. You may want to keep an eye on that neck, it's starting to get thick as stallions will do. Pretty bland pedigree, nothing to write home about anywhere up close. You may want to check his HYPP status.

Try getting some more pics without the saddle on.
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RatherbRidin' · Weanling Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 9

In reply to why is he only walk/trot right now, I have only recently been able to start him again after a long 17 month break. I had a baby...

horsetrainer89 · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject:

Oh! CONGRATULATIONS!!! Sorry.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject:

Don't EVER apologize for taking things slow with training a horse. There are waaaay too many people who push horses along too fast too young, only to end up with dog food at an early age. Horses have to learn how to balance themselves and the added weight of saddle and rider, and it is much safer for the horse (less injurious) to learn this properly at one gait before moving onto the next gait.

Anyone who claims that they can finish a horse that's never been started in 30 to 90 days is not only a liar, they are a fraud.

Diane
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horsetrainer89 · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject:

Just because you can lope a horse, does not under any circumstance make it a finished horse, so don't be calling anyone a fraud or lier. Who the hell on earth thinks that any horse can be finished in 30-90 days? That is just ridiculous! By making a horse lope, that does not mean taking it fast. My guy is definitely a fast learner and sometimes I can't keep up with him. At three years old, that is not super young. If I started my guy at 2, I would never do the things I am doing with him now at that age. My colt has had a saddle on since he was 1 and a half. I have layed on his back bareback since he was 2. I am pretty sure the ones I start are pretty accustomed to weight changes by three.

Obviously you are being extremely ignorant and rude might I add by thinking anyone has said such a thing.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:

My oh my, one would think I struck a nerve there, Megan, as I didn't mention any specific person.

You again show your youth and extreme lack of experience--there are many people who do claim to be able to finish a horse in 30 to 90 days. It was a "standing joke" whenever we saw a nervous horse at the shows to say it was trained by such-and-such, who routinely "finished" horses in that time frame--30 days for a riding horse, 90 days for a show horse.

Riding 2yos is a huge no-no in the eyes of many. I recommend reading Dr. Deb Bennett's articles on maturation of the equine skeleton. You might actually learn something... I personally enjoy the fact that our horses are not only alive, but being ridden and competitive well past the age of 25.

As for being rude, you need to start looking in a mirror Megan. You had no right to be questioning someone as to why their horse is only at a walk-trot stage at age 4--as things stands, her horse is already farther along in training than the horses used by the Spanish Riding School in Austria (you know, the world-famous Lippizans) since they don't put their horses under saddle and being ridden until age 4 or 5, at the earliest. But then, they are more concerned with the horse, than in earning a fast buck...

Diane
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horsetrainer89 · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject:

I wasn't defending a specific person either. I just had an opinion on your post. That was an awful joke by the way!

Starting at 2 is a huge no no in my book to. I don't start one until at least they are the actually (not the january 1st date) 2 and a half. To me, laying on a horses back at age and not going any where is not starting it by any means. It is just a form I like to use to get them used to added weight and for them to also get used to me being up on their back without having to feel claustrophobic because of the saddle.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject:

You're right, it was an awful joke--an awful joke of horse training fraud on the part of this particular person. The fact was that his rush training so obvious that one could pick it out very easily, if one paid minimal attention.

Megan, you are totally missing my point--a horse that is made to lope or canter, under saddle, the first or second or third, etc., time it has been ridden, has not had a chance to build its muscles, find its balance at the slower gaits.

Can a horse be loped/cantered that early, and "safely" (i.e., horse doesn't get sore, rider doesn't get dumped, that sort of thing)? Yes. SHOULD it be done is what needs answering. And, IMO, and in the opinions of the people I learned from, the answer is a resounding NO. Rushing training may bring about a faster "gratifcation", but unvariable leads to a less lengthy productive life.

If your horse is a "fast" learner (i.e, his brain catches on to what you're asking for quickly), it is up to you as a trainer to find ways to engage his brain, to keep him occupied, without skipping the necessary work to so he can develop his muscles properly.

Diane
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horsetrainer89 · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject:

I don't know what particular person you are talking about, so until you explain yourself, there is no fraud happening. Just because others can lope a horse on its first ride without being dumped or anything else, does not give you the right to disrespect them because you can't do it yourself.

Many horses that I have worked with, find their balance during lunging exercises, so there is no need for me to have to wait for them to find it under saddle. May be you need to add in exercises to your ground work to help them find their balance? Remember, not every horse can be trained the same way.

Trust me when I say this, my guy has plenty of muscle. I have been doing plenty of work on the ground with him before starting him under saddle to get the muscle he has. If you have ever seen professional horse trainers start a horse, you would realize that they lope them on the FIRST ride. So I think that the second ride is not bad at all. I guess it all comes down to a persons way in training a horse. What works for me, may not work for you. I have never had a problem with loping a horse on the second ride or first for that matter. It is all on the way you prep them. I can proudly say that I have never been dumped by a horse that I have started under saddle and it is its first ride.

I am not having any trouble with my guy. I have found plenty of things for him to do. He gets taught something new every time I ride him along with practicing what I have already taught him. His muscles are plenty developed and are worked every single ride.

I think you are missing the REAL point. You are basically saying that its your way or the highway and that nobody can have a different training method than you. May I ask, do you ride western or english?

horsewoman1965 · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject:

I agree about waiting to ride at a later age. The more time they have to grow and mature the better. I don't agree that just because a horse could lope on the first or second ride means you should.
What differance does it makes what style she rides?
I am always amazed by how passionate horse people are. Everyone has there opinions and finds what works for them, doesn't mean we have to try to shove our ways off onto others. Proven facts by researchers, I will stand behind those as long as there isn't a "hidden" agenda.
As far as how come it took her so long, that's nobodys bussiness but hers. She is doing it and to me that is all that matters.
Now, my opinion of the horse, he looks like a good stout working horse. He seems to have a kind look about him. He's got a roping saddle on, so, does that mean he will be a roping horse?
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NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject:

nrhareiner · Member Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 154 Location: Ohio

Double post.

Heidi
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nrhareiner · Member Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 154 Location: Ohio