APHA Filly - What Do you think?

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

Hi y'all! I just thought I would post my filly's pedigree and see what you think about her breeding. She's a nice little girl. Very calm and level headed. She's pretty smart. Right now I handle her every day and work with her about 1-2 times a week for about 15 minutes. She walks/trots on a long line by voice commands, she will take a few steps backward, she loads into the trailer beautilfully, leads, ties, ponys off my gelding, flexes, picks up all 4 feet and she is very "light" with pressure. Her only vice is that she is quick with a back foot, but that seems to be getting better. She turned a year last week and she is nearly 14h. I'll have to get a good picture of her, because I am not really sure what color she is. She's like a smutty/olive/bucksin color. Even the breeder is stumped!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/stone+frost

JR · Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject:

Well, the colors in her pedigree got mixed up somewhere along the way. Leo's Alesha cannot be buckskin because black and sorrel can't make buckskin. IF the black was a smoky black, it could happen, but there are no palominos or buckskins anywhere back there.

Then, your horse's sire can't be grullo because black and ??buckskin don't make grullo. Grullo is a dun gene and there are no duns anywhere in the pedigree.

Your filly looks nice on paper, but if those are in fact the colors of those horses... someone jumped a fence somewhere cause those colors just don't happen from those crosses.
_________________
JR

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It's never the horse, it's the rider.
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NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject:

Yes, black and sorrel can make buckskin if the black is "hiding" creme. Smokey black can be hard to determine without a DNA test. And the sorrel would "hide" any sign of agouti (the bay gene) as agouti doesn't show on sorrels/chestnuts. Relying on just peidgree paper information, without photos can make colour determination difficult.

Diane
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JR · Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject:

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

The stallion was a grullo tobiano. I've seen pictures of him. The breeder wasn't sure if the filly was a grulla or not, so she let the APHA pick the color for the papers. They just called her a dun. (Is there a color that is considered just a plain dun color? I thought it was a dillution.) She's a much different color than she was when she was born. Her entire shade has darkened. Her face mask is very dark, she had a light face when she was born. She kept her little star on her forehead. I'll have some extra time to get some pictures of her this week. I'd almost say she was turning into a light slate grulla, but I am just not that familiar with the color. Like I said, it looks (to me) like a smutty/dirty buckskin on her body, but her head and legs are very dark. I have an old book on color that I pulled out this weekend, it has a picture of an olive grulla in it. She seems close to that color, but not exact. I've always had QH. Greys, bays and sorrels. I had one bay tobi paint. This is the first dilute horse I've had.

While the color is something that is certainly interesting me, (I like watching her change as she grows up.) her breeding and a "good head" (brain) are what really matters. Of course I know her breeding back to Doc Bar, etc etc is good, but I don't know much about the horses on the sire side.

I am enjoying working with her, she seems very willing and picks up new things quickly. We live in a "subdivision" where everyone has at least 5 acres in the country. Yesterday morning I took her out on my Sunday morning ride through the neighborhood. I tied her off to my bomb proof gelding and we took about a 20 minute walk. She did great, no spooking. We were passed by cars and tractors, barked at by dogs, we saw mailboxes (which were a little scary at first), llamas, lawnmowers and culvert pipes and she didn't seem to care about any of it. I'm very happy with her!

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject:

Many people consider bay+dun to be just "dun". Chestnut/sorrel+dun gets called red dun, and black+dun is grullo or grulla. To me, saying "dun" means the horse has dun factor, and leaves out the base colour. Laughing

Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

OK, I'm obviously not the brightest light in the box today... how the heck do I post an image on here? Embarassed

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

OK, I figured it out... Here she is. The first one is obviously when she was very young, and the other one I took yesterday with my cell phone. (ps, don't look at the fence, we're restretching it this weekend!) Rolling Eyes

Linda_D · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:24 am Post subject:

Looking at her picture and her pedigree, I think she's probably a buckskin not a dun (as in carrying the dun factor). Does she have the dorsal stripe? Does she have the markings on the withers? Does she have the tiger stripes on her legs?

I'm thinking her sire was probably either a sooty buckskin or maybe a smokey black that was called grullo for lack of a better descriptor. Sometimes what appears to be a dorsal stripe is just counter-shading.

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

Her dorsal stripe is very prominent, it is black. It has not faded as she has grown. If you look at her ear tips from the back she has very distinct black ear tips and the outline on the front of her ears. She does not have the shoulder cross "stripe", but she does have a shoulder cross shadow on both sides. She also has an extra shadow underneath her mane around the mid portion of her neck on the left side. I can't say that she has predominant zebra stripes on her legs. It looks more mottled at the tops of the dark hairs on her legs, almost like a brindle pattern where the dark part fades into the lighter part. She also has guard hairs on her tail, but very little frosting of the mane. I guess only time (and some genetic color testing) will tell! I tend to lean toward bay dun myself. I looked up her sire progeny records on APHA.com and there were quite a few offspring that the APHA just called "dun".

Linda_D · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

Here's the stallion Grey Stone, this is from the breeders web site:

JR · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject:

It takes one to make one. Dun is a dominant gene. If in fact that stallion is grullo, he's coming from a black sire and a buckskin dam. We'll take into consideration that people don't know the difference between buckskin and dun and leave it at that. Even mislabeling the buckskin when it's really a dun doesn't work. Neither of the "buckskins" parents are a shade of dun. You have black and chestnut / sorrel.

If the black is a smoky black or sooty buckskin, then the buckskin is possible, however, the grullo is not. Grey Stone may well be a smoky black, but then your dun is not possible. You've got a buckskin on your hands, and if you do have a dun, I really do believe someone jumped a fence somewhere

Wink

_________________
JR

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's never the horse, it's the rider.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

Y'all want to hear something funny?? I took em to the vet today for rabies vaccines and my gelding needed a coggins. I pulled the horses off the trailer and the vet looked at the filly and said "What color is that horse??" I laughed. I said well, she's a dun on her papers, she's been called a grulla and a buckskin. He told me that he thought she was a strange shade of grulla, but that she sure was a neat color. I just had to laugh...

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject:

A really good place to learn about colour genetics (base colour and patterns) is http://www.equine-color.info/phpBB3/

Diane
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"Nothing can be sliced so thin that it doesn't have two sides" Anon.

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