APHA Filly - What Do you think?

ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

I had someone tell me that they thought the filly might be a brown dun. I can't say that I entirely undertand the genetic difference in brown and bay. Apparently there has been research regarding the difference in true brown duns vs bay duns. From what I've read it has to do with the agouti gene. I found one web site that talks about brown duns in particular. I thought it was interesting anyway.

http://www.duncentralstation.com/BrownBayDun.html

pocomoonskyeyes · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: Apha has some weird NEW colors

This year in the Paint Horse Journal(PHJ) they have done some different articles on color genetics with a lot of new colors being admitted and maybe even created(named I mean) there is even a lady in Kentucky who has the only horse registered as that color (sorry don't remember what that color is)but she had to PROVE her horse was indeed that color and petition the assn. to recognize it submitting proof, meaning she had to have all kinds of color genetics tests done.But she does have the only horse CURRENTLY registered as that color. I guess I could look through my PHJ's and find it if anyone is interested some sort of smoky champagne I believe. And yes in the past horses have been registered as a dun when genetically they were something else,the same with grullos roans and buckskins. the Registrars just had to go with what they could see in the photos which werent always that great. With all the breakthroughs in genetics it is being discovered that there are more possibilities than previously thought.
To me your horse LOOKS to be a buckskin. But there could be some of those "primitive markings" that I can't see because of photo clarity, lighting etc. Bays,Bucks and duns can have a dorsal stripe, on Duns the lines just look "cleaner" than the others. Also according to the article in PHJ there are Dun Grullos. There are even colors that are GENETICALLY proven,but as of yet are not even recognized....I.E.Red Pearl registered as a Palomino(May '09 PHJ), simply becaused it is not recognized by the assn.
Now back to what I had alluded to earlier about this lady and her "one of a kind" colored horse... does this mean that this is the first horse ever to be this color? probably not. It is just the first time it has been recognized as such. Soooo without these genetic tests the true color of your horse may always be disputed. Apha classed my Stud as a sorrel but to me ... he is Chestnut. I know , I know I say potato you say potahto. Laughing

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ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

There's absolutely no doubt that she's a dun. She has very definitive primitive markings. Her primitive markings have not faded with the sun at all. Her dorsal stripe is very dark and pretty wide. She has very difinitive zebra striping and mottling/brindling on her shoulders and neck and face. I'll have to take some close ups of all that. It's just a matter of what her base color is. Since she's grown, I lean toward a dunskin. Some people have called her body color dun, but from what I've read "dun" is the modifier and not the color. Some people really think she is some weird shade of grullo, and sometimes I think that she looks like a dark slate, but I just don't think she's a grullo. I am going to have her tested, maybe in the fall. However, I don't think I can do dun zygosity because they want a sample from both parents and the sire is deceased. (He was struck by lightning in the pasture last year) Nah, I don't particulary think that I have that one of a kind color, I'm sure she is some color, it's just a matter of which one it is! She's a weird shade of whatever she is, and I'm curious to figure it out. Her papers say dun(color was assigned by APHA), which is true, they just omit the base color. I doubt I would worry about having that changed even if I do figure out the base color. I have however, found it interesting at how subjective the color part of registration papers is! I've never really thought about it until now.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject:

Yep, a lot of people call what is in reality bay dun just "dun", with chestnut dun being a "red dun", and of course black dun being "grullo".

Diane
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ImaTexasPeach · Yearling Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

Here's her dun markings. Some of the images are a little fuzzy, I took them with the cell phone. (Because I was too lazy to drag out the camera this morning!) I took them when she was finishing her breakfast. She looks quite a bit darker than she did just a week ago. It's funny how she keeps going from darker than lighter. (you'll have to forgive my fence Smile

we are restretching it soon. Due to the drought, the horses have had to stay in the back pasture, and they decided to lean on the fence. I think they were secretly plotting an escape! I'm trying to save at least some of our grass!)

horsewoman1965 · Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject:

Pocomoonskys, was that Spirit Wins farm? I'm thinking that is the name of the farm with the horse you're talking about.
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pocomoonskyeyes · Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:49 am Post subject:

Yes you are absolutely correct!! Dec.'08 Paint Horse Journal AKA PHJ P.128 A smoky Cream named "SWF One In A Million" / By True Golden Jack, A grullo homozygous tobiano who carries a cream gene, out of Tuffernfox, a buckskin Tobiano, who also carries a cr gene The filly was genetically tested by UC Davis and found she was Hmz black,Hmz recessive agouti,Hmz tobiano, and Hmz cream genetically. Classed as a Smoky Cream she is the only one in the APHA! Spirit Wins Farms in Farmington Ky. The owner of all 3 horses is Angel Brainerd. This info was in the Dec '08 article on cream Genetics. BTW don't know if My abbreviations are correct, but Here Hmz means Homozygous. Man you're smart!
Mel
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horsewoman1965 · Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject:

Me smart??? Naw. Angel used to post on Marestare so we've talked.
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