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NZ Appaloosas
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 612
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| warchief wrote: | | Impressive sired 89 performance ROM and only 43 Halter ROM. Of these 21 were AQHA Champions. Sounds like an all round sire to me |
That was also more than 20 years ago...in the meantime, halter people jumped up and down and "grabbed" anything related to Impressive, and made it "their own", so to speak, whereas performance people went off in other directions. That's why most people stereotype Impressive-breds as halter horses, not performance horses.
Diane
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pocomoonskyeyes
Yearling
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Glasgow, Kentucky
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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something about this whole line of discussion has gotten me thinking... IF this HYPP thing was caused by the linebreeding couldn't the same thing happen today with all the interest in breeding for "specialized disciplines"?
This is something I just don't get. You may have 100 generations of doctors and end up with an athlete in the next or vice versa. I know people who have bred to this or that Stud 'cause "he's all that" and ended up with utter disappointment and lost money and they have good mares so that isn't the problem.
I just think that each and every horse has it's own potential,it could come from that really nice breeding farm,or it could be a home bred horse, and end up a superstar. I mean whatever happened to genetic diversity? 
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pocomoonskyeyes
Yearling
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Glasgow, Kentucky
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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OK I admit I do not show in any breed or discipline. However from my LIMITED understanding I thought that the purpose of Halter classes was the best in conformation and breed standard. Please correct me if I am wrong. To me anyway, it seems to reason that if this is the "ideal" or best representative of that "ideal" that because of conformational and breed correctness these same horses SHOULD excel at whatever they were trained for, at least in theory.
Now excuse me if I am wrong,But I am really trying to learn something here.I know more about horses than I used to, but not as much as I would like to(I would like to know so much that the experts asked me for advice....but that ain't gonna' happen,LOL). Especially about the show aspect.and everyone keeps refering to show results. I have been to shows but never participated so there is a lot I don't know. With my limited understanding it is easy for me to make assumptions,some correct some incorrect. But some things seem so logical to me I just don't see where all the confusion comes in. with that being said, it stands to reason that either the Breed standards are flawed, or the show aspect of that standard is.
I'm sorry I used your post as the quote but it said the most about what I am trying to comprehend,so seemed the best example.
| Quote: | I didn't mean that I don't like Impressives. I was just giving a reason that many performance people don't like them. The AQHA has become very specialized, with not only some bloodlines noted for producing running horses (Dash For Cash) or halter horses (Impressive) but also for some lines that produce primarily reiners or primarily cutters or primarily barrel racers, etc.
Some lines cross over multiple disciplines, however. For example, barrel racing requires speedy horses, so barrel racers would welcome Dash For Cashes or other horses bred for racing ability. OTOH, lines bred primarily for halter showing generally don't add much to lines bred primarily for barrel racing -- or most other of the major performance disciplines. |
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one okie gal
Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 96
Location: oklahoma city, oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| pocomoonskyeyes wrote: | OK I admit I do not show in any breed or discipline. However from my LIMITED understanding I thought that the purpose of Halter classes was the best in conformation and breed standard. Please correct me if I am wrong. To me anyway, it seems to reason that if this is the "ideal" or best representative of that "ideal" that because of conformational and breed correctness these same horses SHOULD excel at whatever they were trained for, at least in theory.
Now excuse me if I am wrong,But I am really trying to learn something here.I know more about horses than I used to, but not as much as I would like to(I would like to know so much that the experts asked me for advice....but that ain't gonna' happen,LOL). Especially about the show aspect.and everyone keeps refering to show results. I have been to shows but never participated so there is a lot I don't know. With my limited understanding it is easy for me to make assumptions,some correct some incorrect. But some things seem so logical to me I just don't see where all the confusion comes in. with that being said, it stands to reason that either the Breed standards are flawed, or the show aspect of that standard is.
I'm sorry I used your post as the quote but it said the most about what I am trying to comprehend,so seemed the best example.
| Quote: | I didn't mean that I don't like Impressives. I was just giving a reason that many performance people don't like them. The AQHA has become very specialized, with not only some bloodlines noted for producing running horses (Dash For Cash) or halter horses (Impressive) but also for some lines that produce primarily reiners or primarily cutters or primarily barrel racers, etc.
Some lines cross over multiple disciplines, however. For example, barrel racing requires speedy horses, so barrel racers would welcome Dash For Cashes or other horses bred for racing ability. OTOH, lines bred primarily for halter showing generally don't add much to lines bred primarily for barrel racing -- or most other of the major performance disciplines. |
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WOW! this thread is still active! Amazing isn't it. Here is my take on the halter horse situation. Unless they have recently changed (entirely possible) AQHA has various classes and if they are shown Halter, then they don't have to compete or show other classes.
The QH industry is just now having the sort of discussions they should've had years ago and they should've thought out and implemented the best possible solutions. HYPP should've motivated them to be aware of possible genetic problems and mutations and should've provided some leadership and viable solutions for the horses and the owners. Now QH are showing up with other problems, such as Herda and I'm sure there are many, many more that are just waiting in the wings.
I think that all QH should be registered. I also believe that they should have genetic testing to verify if they are H/H, N/H or N/N. I'm fine if they want to show horses that are N/H or H/H, but I strongly feel that all of the N/H and H/H should be sterilized as a condition of registration and of showing. Coosa is out of Impressive, but he is N/N. What a lucky deal that was. Good horses and used in multiple disciplines. And what a nice attitude. I'd hate to see the good qualities go. I bet folks with horses that trace back to Poco Bueno feel the same thing about having a negative HERDA test. That needs to be addressed. While this is new for QH industry, I don't think it is an unheard of situation in the breeding of animals. Just do a little research on Hereford cattle and Black Angus cattle. Those show animals are bred to look like what the judge wants to see. Now certain lines of those breeds are afflicted with short legs and some are too big and the solutions ended up being too small. Perhaps one of the solutions is to replace judges and really push for the horses that show to meet breed standards. |
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warchief
Active Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Kerrville,TX
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Just a note on HURDA All three studs these horses trace back to are all sons of King. I've heard people say you have to watch king bred for HURDA. If you look a little closer all three are all out of Miss Taylor. Why is King getting a bad rap? It is obvious where the gene cqme from. |
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NZ Appaloosas
Very Active Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 612
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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HERDA (not HURDA) is primarily linked to Poco Bueno. It also only produces an afflicted horse in the homozygous form, a horse that has only one copy of HERDA is a carrier, much like frame (Overo Lethal White). 95% of all HERDA carriers/afflicted trace back to Poco Bueno, and the remaining 5% can trace to King and, IIRC, Zantanon. Don't quote me on the Zantanon, tho', as I'm not 100% positive I have the right "Z" named horse.
Diane
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one okie gal
Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 96
Location: oklahoma city, oklahoma
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Zantanon is the sire of King. I had heard that most if not all of the GBED carriers & casualties trace back to King & that Zantanon was the supposed source of that mutation.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/evj/eve/2008/00000020/00000008/art00001?crawler=true
Ok, so while I am looking at genetic diseases and mutations of quarterhorses, this article pops up. Makes ya go "hmmmm". (I didn't read the whole thing, but just the preview is kinda scary. No genetic ties to Impressive and negative on the DNA test for HYPP.) |
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NZ Appaloosas
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 612
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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From the abstract: | Quote: | | This study suggests that an episode of muscle weakness, which was reported in a Criollo Argentino genetically unrelated to Impressive, was related to marked hyperkalaemia. The symptoms in this case were reproducible following a KCl challenge test although DNA testing for HYPP was negative. Based on these findings, a diagnosis of a HYPP-like syndrome was made |
It isn't saying that it is the same mutation as HyPP, but rather that, based on the similarities, they made a diagnosis of it being a syndrome that is "HyPP-like". The actual DNA mutation that all Impressive HyPP+ horses have was not found.
Diane
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one okie gal
Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 96
Location: oklahoma city, oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| NZ Appaloosas wrote: | From the abstract: | Quote: | | This study suggests that an episode of muscle weakness, which was reported in a Criollo Argentino genetically unrelated to Impressive, was related to marked hyperkalaemia. The symptoms in this case were reproducible following a KCl challenge test although DNA testing for HYPP was negative. Based on these findings, a diagnosis of a HYPP-like syndrome was made |
It isn't saying that it is the same mutation as HyPP, but rather that, based on the similarities, they made a diagnosis of it being a syndrome that is "HyPP-like". The actual DNA mutation that all Impressive HyPP+ horses have was not found.
Diane |
Ya, like I was saying, no ties to Impressive, not the same, not genetic same as HYPP, but a similar syndrome in an unrelated breed of horse.
Hopefully they will be able to trace down what gene it occurs on and a test that will identify their carriers so that they don't have to deal with the same problems that QH owners do in regard to HYPP.
Which as I said earlier is not an unknown problem in the breeding of animals. Usually the obvious errors of our practices are known in the next year when the foal comes along. However, breeders are always going to be at the mercy of the genetic draw in hoping that they get more of the things they want than the undesirable traits. Which of course brings us to the WILD CARD. Mutation happens spontaneously, and it can happen anyplace along the genetic code, so we really shouldn't be surprized when it does happen. |
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