Appaloosa breeders what are we doing?

F3047

I recently learned about the CSNB gene which causes snow cap or few spot appaloosas to be born unable to see well at twilight, or at night. l am particularly disturbed by the recent few spot and snow cap trend anyway, because of the implications of having an all white horse represent the appaloosa.
Do you believe that all snow caps and few-spots are night blind?
I know for a fact that many some of my other appaloosas are night blind also although they are not few spots
Do you have a few spot that is not night blind?
Is this issue tied to a specific bloodline?

If you are honest, do you know how many of your appaloosas are night blind or not?
Would you take a spotlight to the pasture and see?
Just check by shining it in their eyes...do they squint or stare back at you with out blinking when you hit the spot light on them?
Question

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whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

I haven't been around that many few spot leopards but I have owned my share of true and false snowcaps...the true having two colored Appaloosa parents and the false having one solid-colored parent.

I'm using a red dun grandson of The Executive now that is a true snowcap...white-tipped ears, full blaze, snow white blanket from the withers back, two high stockings behind and two "lightning flashed" legs in front. He doesn't have any sight issues. 100% color so far...

I have seen snowcaps with "sky eyes," and I have always suspected that this trait is somehow linked to impaired vision.

There is a bloodline within the breed that has seemed, over the years, to be prone (some, not all) toward evental blindness. (Hint: you're named after it.)

Frank Holmes
Kiowa, CO

(Disclaimer: I don't pretend to be a geneticist, but I have studied Appaloosa color patterns and/or Appaloosa color production for years.)

F3047

Thanks Frank
Personally I trust the breeders wit years of experience more than any genetic study that uses only 40 horses to make a "gene-realization" about an entire breed, especially considering the variables in the Aphc gene pool.
One well known App Authority said on another forum "all snowcaps and few spots are night blind"....
This is one of the people who was seeming to encourage snow cap breeding a few years ago, and yes, a proponent of the BEB bloodline.
A friend of mine who raises black leopards, from the Ulrich and Scripter bloodlines recently had his first snow cap. He checked and no the horse was not night blind...on the other hand I have a line bred daughter of Mighty Tim who is not a snowcap or fewspot, and she most definitely is night blind.
She is "buckskin" with blue spots in her eyes and a lacy blanket.
On the other hand my Abasarokee mare who has two tall stockings and a watch eye, is not night blind?
The paint markings are not a factor apparently.
Question

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bullsie · Active Member Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 200

We had a fewspot mare, several snowcaps, and a roan some refer to as fewspot. None had any type of eye difficulty. But, we had a black leopard that was going blind. The later was from a family of blind horses - of all colors.

Joker w · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:38 am Post subject:

I have an old mare, 28 years old that was born a bay with a few spots and turned gray by the age of 5. She seemed to see fine until she was about 20, then we noticed she had trouble finding her way in from the pasture after dark but could do fine during daylight. A vet. looked at her eyes and said she had the typical appaloosa night blindness.
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bullsie · Active Member Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 200

Joker W, apparently she was without the "typical appaloosa night blindness" for 20 years! A friend whose excellent sited mare began to have trouble when she got about 28. She put a bug mask on her during the day to break up the light reaching her eyes and she did much better, keeping her sight, night and day vision, till her death at 32.

Give it a try and see if it helps your mare.

Inyureye · Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:37 am Post subject:

Sigh. Maybe that's what I need. A bug mask. Shocked

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ourpaintedreams · Weanling Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 7

I have some issues with my appaloosas running into some of the fencing at night. I also have been lucky enough to acquire 2 horses with ERU / moonblindness. This web page was very interesting for me.

http://www.appaloosaproject.info/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=34
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bullsie · Active Member Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 200

Nice info ourpaintedreams. Some interesting info on what is being found.

ERU, equine recurrent uveitis, tends to be a term like "hives". In other words, if it exists, doesn't mean its the disease or problem, just the result of something, a generic term - much like getting hives from say strawberries; never eating strawberries you'll never get hives... just not that simple.

I suspect the tip of the iceburg is waht we are seeing presently. What makes appaloosas so vulnerable is that emphasis on color or show records has lead to a blinders view of undesirable traits.

Another problem was a horse who with physical issues was easily sold for meat and the problem was solved. If we look at many of the physical problems that exist in horses, they can all be solved with a trip to the kill pens. We saw it with navicular, with hypp, we see it with blindness.

Will be interesting to see where they go with research on this very serious condition.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject:

I'm confused as to why people say that CSNB is an extremely serious matter...a horse with CSNB (and it does occur in other breeds than appaloosas) is not blind. It has normal day vision. And a horse with CSNB is also 'adjusted' to the situation, as CSNB is present from birth, and the horse has never had a day (or night) where its vision was any different, unlike a horse that gets ERU (again, also found in other breeds), and progressively becomes blind if not treated.

I think many people get confused over the major differences between CSNB and ERU, and hang the hat on CSNB as that's the current 'hot topic'. CSNB, from what I've read, cannot be completely diagnosed without the use of some rather sophisticated equipment.

As for blind horses being 'useless', maybe someone should go talk to John Lyons about his blind stallion he used to ride...

Diane
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bullsie · Active Member Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 200

NZ Appaloosas, John Lyons showed they are usefull despite lack of sight, but special needs were in order. Many folks choose to keep their beloved equine friend despite blindness. They work very hard to see that the surroundings and means of care are tailored for a blind horse. This is not the typical way to care for a horse. It is challenging but do-able! Just dedication, which is much lacking in our society.

You have neatly described the problem with equine eye problems. They tend to all be grouped under one name. Few understand. Even veterinarians are faced with a lack of scientific research and answers. And treatments are varied with little long term knowledge of success/failure.

skipitgirl · Member Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Ohio

If you are referring to Johns horse Zip, he became blind due to an adverse reaction to his innoculations, not moonblindness. His was sudden. Like seeing perfectly one day and nothing the next. But he overcame it well and his complete trust in John was instrumental in his being able to continue to travel and do clinics with John.

clippity_clop · Member Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 148 Location: East Coast

I am hopeful they will someday find some way to distinguish the degree of severity of an affected horse.
There is a question that has been touched on concerning this affliction on another message board and
I'd like to the opinions of people here on the issue.

Do you lump CSNB in the same boat with HYPP and HERDA as to genetic defects?

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject:

Not with HyPP, as the CSNB horse is that way from birth, does not become progressively worse, and does not require major adjustments to accomodate. HERDA and frame (Overo Lethal White) are in different categories than HyPP...an HyPP positive horse can have an attack whether it be in heterozygous or homozygous form.

For a horse to be afflicted with HERDA or have the fatality of OLWS, it must be in the homozygous form. And there again, both create an unavoidable need for extreme medical intervention at some point rather early on in the horse's life.

CSNB, on the other hand, really takes no more than normal common sense, i.e., not throwing the horse into very dark, unfamiliar surroundings.

Diane
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