Marion's Girl's colt

warchief · Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: Marion's Girl's colt

The database shows that Marion's Girl carried the overo gene. I know she had a crop out, but she shows no known overo breeding. What was the sire of this colt.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:39 am Post subject:

The problem with the word "overo" is that it basically covers any pattern that is not tobiano, which involves several diverse genes...sabino, splash and frame, for starters. I would have to look at pictures of the horse, as well as ancestors to make a guess as to pattern genes.

Then add in the fact that both frame AND tobiano have been proven to be able to "hide"...

Diane
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warchief · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:00 am Post subject:

Sorry Diane, I'm not trying to start an argument, but tobiano dosen't "hide". You have to have one to get one.

As for looking at the breeding, that is why I want to find out the sire.

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

I wrote a chapter on Marion's Girl for Legends 8. To my knowledge, the mare never produced a foal. She was hauled to the court of King P-234 in the spring of 1957 and died in Marion Flynt's pasture the following December of blood poisoning.

As far as my research is concerned, it has been proven to be inaccurate in the past and probably will be again. That said, I have unearthes even a hint of information that states that Marion's Girl was bred to Royal King as a 2-year-old (before he enjoyed any kind of notoriety) and had a cropout Paint foal.

I would be very interested in seeing the hard data that supports this claim.

I think we all know by now that, just because something appears on this site, doesn't make it accurate.

Frank Holmes
Kiowa, CO

P.S. Warchief is right; "tobiano" doesn't hide. You have to have one to produce one. The APHA does have cases where a tobiano has one single spot that is too small to get it registered, only to produce a loud-colored tobiano when bred to a solid horse.

The legendary tobiano Paint cutting mare Delta was sired by an AQHA-registered stallion and out of an NQHBA-registered gray mare. But I verified with people who knew Delta's dam that she was a gray tobiano mare whose base color, in time, masked her tobiano markings.

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

This site needs "spellcheck!" I meant to say that I have not unearthed any information to indicate Marion's Girl ever produced a foal.

Frank

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject:

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Marion's Girl

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

Diane,

Has there ever been, to your knowledge, a tobiano-patterned horse produced on its own by one of these horses that carry a "hidden" tobiano gene? In other words, has one of these "solid tobiano horses" ever produced a tobiano when bred to a horse that doesn't carry the tobiano gene?

Frank

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject:

Yep. Tested positive for tobiano and has produced tobiano foals. Frame examples would be the whole Racey Remarque line of TBs.

http://www.equine-color.info/v/white/tobiano/Dartmoor+Pony.jpg.html Minimal expression, albeit with the white over the rump in a little splotch.

http://www.equine-color.info/v/white/tobiano/Wielkopolska+Mare.jpg.html
One could maybe argue that the white tail shows the tobiano pattern, but I had a snowflake appaloosa mare with a similar tail...

http://www.songcatcherminiaturehorseranch.com/nash_002.htm
The first stallion is a tested frame.

I've asked a couple people I know who are more savvy on finding links to these sorts of photos to help me find some, so will answer again when I have them.

Diane
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warchief · Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject:

Are you saying that all of the examples that you have shown all had two solid parents?

Ryan · Active Member Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 321

Diane - Very cool

Do you happen to know if anyone does know how Patchy Lassy TB got the frame gene? I saw the double and triple bloodlines in her pedigree. Do you know if those lines have produced other "paint" horses.

My guess is the gene is linked to the gray horses in her pedigree - Give Em The Axe, some of those gray horses had spots and, as the horses aged the "spots" vanished.

I remember this, becauase when I was in high school, I won my State 4-H horse judging and advanced to the National 4-H Convention competition in Denver. We judged around 20 classes and there was a set of paint geldings - one of the four was a gray and showed no spots....I placed it at the bottom of my set, because it lacked the spots that the other 3 had. Later found out it did have spots and we were shown where they were after close, and very close inspection. I had heard to be prepared for "tricks" like that, and of course that was before all the DNA'ing know done to prove "bloodline" and or "Breed".
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whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

Diane,

My question is the same as Warchief's. Show me photos of the parents of all your examples. Does it say somewhere that all the parents were solid?

Frank

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject:

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:03 pm Post subject:

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: