Appaloosa breeders what are we doing?

clippity_clop · Member Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 148 Location: East Coast

I agree with you that they are not at all to be considered the same in severity. However, some people seem to think that ethically, a genetic flaw is a genetic flaw and should not be bred.

The argument arose because some are in favor of wiping out HERDA and HYPP from the registered stock completely. It could be very easily done without harming the affected breeds. But fans of big money Reining, roping and Halter lines, don't see it that way. It seems they are lumping in CSNB with the others to give their argument (at least from their prospective) for breeding carriers of both HYPP and HERDA a semblance of credibility. I don't get it really.

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:

HyPP can, and should, be removed from the horse population...despite what some people claim, it does not provide any benefit to horse or human, and, as I stated, a horse that is N/H is as afflicted with the defect/disease as one that is H/H.

HERDA, I'm on the fence about that one...in single form, there is no problem at all, similar to frame. However, unlike frame, HERDA really offers nothing in the heterozygous form. At least frame provides a "pretty" pattern.

Lp-related CSNB, again as I stated, does not cause the horse to be totally blind, to be "unusable", or to be in pain or to die. Basically, to totally avoid Lp-related CSNB, as based upon that study, one would have to totally avoid breeding appaloosas (or any other Lp-based breed such as knabs, etc.)...at least horses that most people recognise as appaloosas, since any Lplp horse, bred to another Lplp horse has a 25% of creating an LpLp horse...the genotype the study identified as being affected with CSNB.

So, IMO, those who think that CSNB is a genetic defect that needs to be bred away aren't appaloosa people and either don't understand the breed, don't understand the condition, or don't like the breed (and if they don't like the breed, chances are they have been outsmarted by an appaloosa in the past. Laughing

).

Diane
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clippity_clop · Member Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 148 Location: East Coast

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject:

HERDA breeding can be "controlled", it only takes intelligent breeding decisions...same as frame, same as pretty much any known defect, especially those that have genetic testing available.

Look at it this way, with regards to CSNB...the study done says homozygus Lp horses all have CSNB, however, CSNB test results does not guarantee that a horse is LpLp...that puts, IMO, the whole CSNB into the "don't fret/be smart" category, and not much to be spinning wheels over. /shrug/

Diane
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clippity_clop · Member Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 148 Location: East Coast

NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject:

I suggest, if you are not already, become a member of the Appaloosa Project. Sheila Archer has done some recent posting about CSNB, and reiterated that when the initial study was done, some 80% of the owners of LpLp horses (by phenotype) did not realise that their horses were night blind, as was shown by the eye testing results. Therefore, IMO, CSNB is not the problem that some people would like to make of it.

Diane
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dunappy · 2 Year Old Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 46

I had one varnish roan mare that was night blind. Her 2 year old gelding at this time does not appear to be night blind. none of my other horses appears to be night blind.

x factor fan · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:

And just like shades of color of bay, or chestnut or any other base coat, there could be a difference in expression of Nightblindness. Some horses presenting early with clear symptoms, while others only present as aged horses. And given how long the average appy lives, they have a better chance of reaching a ripe old, old age and showing the symptoms.

This by the way is pretty classic for lots of mutations. Symptoms hit after or late in the reproductive life of the species. Make sense if you think about it. a mutation that kills at birth or before puberty pretty much dies out with the host. In order for a mutation to become established it needs to let the host reproduce.

summerhorse · Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject:

From what I understand affected horses are not "blind" they simply lack the night vision other horses have and in fact have similar vision to people in the dark. They do have a better sense of their surroundings than people do though! Mine never seemed to have any trouble at night.

The problem I see as I read sale ads and rescue sites is TOTAL BLINDNESS not night blindness but day blindness. Too many apps are going blind due to whatever reasons which makes their prospects for a happy retirement a bit iffy. Do they all have ERU?
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NZ Appaloosas · Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:33 am Post subject:

It is possible--because appies have mottled skin around the eyes, they can be more prone to uveitis.

Diane
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summerhorse · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject:

But not all of the horses I've seen that are blind have that much m ottling. It is probably a factor of course like fair skinned people and skin cancer but I just seem to notice it a lot more. But perhaps it is due to the tendency now for us to keep our horses as pasture ornaments whereas back in the olden days (when I was a little kid) they would have been sold on and we know where most ended up. So it wasn't either noticed or seen as an issue since steaks don't need to see!

Few spots are important to breeding programs though and all you have to do is breed to a solid horse or spotted horse (i.e. not another few spot) to get color (and if colored then 25% chance of another few spot). I don't see it as an issue at all, it is just the way they are and have been since the gene mutated in the first place.

The total blindness and the EVU thing is bothersome though.
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