Getting the spooks out!!

[jen39503]

On another thread I got alot of great advice on how to de-spook my horse and thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread.
So, any ideas from all y'all on how to release the dead people from my filly?
Shes 22 mths old and freaks when the wind blows

[Inyureye]

Here's my take, and others can chime in with their experience. She's a baby. She'll still be a baby emotionally for several years, yet, and when they look "grown up" its hard to remember they are still so very immature. In the wild, horses learn from their mothers, and then from the older horses in their herd, what to fear and what is ok. Often when we raise them outside this natural classroom, they don't get the feed back they need to learn what is not to be feared and what should they spook at, or flee from. So sometimes this settling down takes a long time, bcause they have to figure out a)who is their teacher and b) what is their teacher saying.

So, you need to be her teacher. You will be telling her what's ok and what's not for a long time before she learns it. Go slow with her and have patience. When you "say" something is ok, she may not believe you. She may have to learn this for herself. Let her investigate everything for herelf. Don't punish her for being scared, or for her spooky reactions. Punishment is scary, too. There are probably other folks here who can give you specific ideas of how to condition her to be steady around scary things, but the main idea will be to condition her. You can create a busy farm, tractor running for a while, etc. but don't force her into a scary situation, like tying scary things to her, or forcing her across a bridge she is panicking over. Get her out of panic modes when she goes there, and start again. Start with easy things, stepping on a pice of plywood on the ground, and go slow. It will take months, years, Let her investigate scary things on her own, keep her safe, and she will feel safe with you. When she is safe, introduce her to new thingss, but don't be the source of scary things for her. There are some really good books and methods of this and I am out of my element with specifics, so do some reading up, even take a few clinics with a trainer, but don't expect alot from her at this young age. Repetition, and reinforcment of her basics, ground manners, etc. would go a long way to make her comfortable learning new things. Hopefully some other folks will help you out here, too.

Inyureye
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[TX-WI]

Another things is she not only learns from you but takes cues from you. If you act like things that look spooky are no big deal then she might start following your cues. Horses can read even the subtlest cues from us. If you are confident then she can feel safe.

but you also need to watch her closely to see what she really spooks at and to what she acts like she is spooking at. They'll get away with it if you let them.
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gdh

I've started an exercise program.
I do 20 sit-ups each morning.
That may not sound like a lot, but you can only hit that snooze button so many times

[Calens Arabians]

I would like to add to this thread my own experiences.

I have had spooky horses who were so mainly because the folks handling them expected them to spook. Once the expactation was gone, so too was the spooking.

On the other thread you mensioned you are a first time owner. Perhaps you are nervous, maybe even just a little and she is picking up on that nervousness. This is in turn causing her to be a little like a loaded gun. She is wound tight and anything unexpected acts as a force on that trigger, blam, the gun goes off, boing, and the spring is sprung.

Of course, that is not to say it isn't her. I worked with a young stallion who had no trust issues. He loved people, he came at the first indication you might be interested in him. He leads, loads, bathes, clips, ties, and sacks out, not a flinch. Put a saddle on him, or a circyngle and bridle, and suddenly, he is seeing dead people too. The warm summer temps cause the tin to pop, the neighbor car or owners dogs show up suddenly, other horses moving about, a long-rein touches him without warning, the saddle makes a louder creak than ussuall... and he tries to use the nearest human for cover.

We have tried several methods with him, finally gelded him (he wasn't stallion material to begin with). Tried him with several trainers. Now he doesn't even trust folks, cannot be caught easily... We figure the trainers pushed too hard and lost his trust. This still doesn't explain why a 5yo is so spooky (ghostly), he has never been mistreated (unless at the trainers) and only seems to be jumpy in those two settings (saddled/circyngle).

He has been under several different saddles, from english to western to Aussie. He has had physical exams including saddle fit, eyes, ears and nervous system, no dice.

What to do? His owner has been advised to put him down for safety sake. Give him to someone who has a good rep with flighty horses and dump him off at a meat auction (death sentence basically). We still haven't given up on him, but, currently he is just standing arround burnin hay, carrying a for sale sign.
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[Bindi]

Horses, like some people can be nervy. To all varying degrees. Some man-made, some inherited attitude from the mare, others no-one knows.
The important thing at all times is the handlers safety. No one wants to end up a dead hero. And inyureye is correct that alot of eventual training problems comes from the unacceptance of a spooky horse. When their mind is so full of ghosts it's almost impossible to train around them all.

I read a paper on the neuro transmissions of horses (and I can't remember whether my vet gave it to me to read or where it came from - maybe the net). The gist of it was that as with any living creature, the brain can have disturbances at certain centres which will govern things like nervous behaviour. AND the most common was at things you wouldn't think would be the scaries - like grates in the ground, squeeks, height of things, and, of all things, sneezing of humans!

Try sneezing around your horse - get his reaction!!! I've tried it, some don't care others go "What the........."

Anyway the point I'm making is, that some nervy horses are born that way. Maybe from a defect within the chemistry of the brain. Some get that way with help from mum or a handler.
Man-made can be worked with, and even overcome. The other I don't think so. But in everything you do, be careful. If they are 'running for their life' from a plastic bag noise, they won't care if you are standing in the way of the door.

Remember there are always beautiful horses out there that you could own. It costs as much to feed a bad one as a good one. If all else fails, sell him/her to someone who knows the history and is prepared, or do the really hard thing and send away to the horse heaven pick up truck.

Cheers................Bindi in Oz

[Rebecca B]

Hi Jen, is that your name? Has the filly been
exposed to many different situations, or have
you just started getting her out in the world?
She might be just fine, and just need to see
more. Teaching her to lead right and stay off
you is the first step. Is that part OK? Or if
you can pony her off another quiet horse,
we do that with all of them. Your safer, the
young horse is reassured by the older horse,
and you can go all kinds of places.

You don't want to tiptoe around a horse like
that. My husband shoes at one dressage
barn where they shush children, tie up dogs,
act all careful all the time... guess what? the
horses are nervous wrecks. They know whats
in your heart, and in your expectations. You
have to do some soul searching. If she scares
you, you might need some help. If you're
fairly OK, just do new things in small steps,
and get each step solid before going on. If
your fine and she's kinda nervous... get out
and do things, as much as you can think up.
If you want more details on safe ponying and
different things to try just ask and I'll try to
describe it more.

[Bindi]

Yep Rebecca she is fairly young from Jen's post she is 22 months. So your advise about getting her out there to experience different things is a good idea. Floating, local shows ect. I would think that she already knows how to tie, feet up ect. And has been stalled. I think she meant (and correct me Jen if I'm wrong), its more that the filly is expecting things to jump out at her in the long grass, from behind the barn door, and when the wind is blowing she thinks the world is coming to an end.

Wind traditionally upsets lots of horses. While the wind is blowing a horse finds it hard to hear general noises that it considers 'safety sounds'. Like their paddock buddy down the laneway, or the soft sounds of the other horses eating or resting. When a horse can't hear those safety sounds they are on alert for the 'pop-outs', those things that skewer a horse and eat them

Horses cannot filter and rationalise noises like we do, they rely souly on what is familiar and safe. If they can't hear safe, they assume not safe...........

So try lots of things, watch lots of videos (we have one out here called How to Bomb-proof your Horse). Do the tarp on the ground, the bag on the fence, and all that stuff. But keep in mind even after all that it is still possible that you have to decide whats next................Bindi in Oz Good Luck

[Rebecca B]

Binki, I think it's important to know more about the
situation before offering advice. Yes, Jen did say
she is a youngster - but many youngsters that age
have been out and about a lot. She may have just
purchased her. Jen sounds like she knows more than
you are giving her credit for. I'm sure she knows
all about horses and wind with a youngster! Don't
can that baby just yet, Jen.

[jen39503]

She leads fine most of the time, but sometimes she hesitates and starts looking around with the stink eye.
She goes in to her stall fine, walks through the barn now and generally if i'm with her and shes on the lead, shes okay.
Its the "tall grass monsters" that scare the bejesus out of her. Tonight for instance, i took a garbage bag out to their pasture and had it in my hand, i showed it to her she turned and left her run in, when she was gone i hung it on the fence, she kinda looked at it and gave it a wide berth but made it to her feed bowl without being attacked. When the wind started blowing her whole body tensed up and that stink eye was daring that bag to move.
I took it with me when i left because i didnt want her getting it stuck on her head, lol.
The barn cats and sneezing don't seem to bother her.
I think tomorrow after we pasture sit i'm going to halter her and lead her around the property. Should be a fun adventure.
Its far enough away from the road that i dont have to worry about speeding cars and whatnot. Also if she spooks really bad and i lose control there really isnt anywhere for her to go....just 36 acres of cross fenced pastures with lanes between the fields.

[jen39503]

A little about her.....she is 22 mths old. We got her when she was 16 mths old (i think).
Deb, the lady that owned Tina and fancy, had found a buyer for fancy when she was foaled. The lady didnt want deb to have anything to do with fanc because she wanted to imprint her herself. Well, the lady never came through and fancy was kinda left to her own devices.
When we got her at 16 mths old, she barely knew how to lead, wanted my space, refused to move. Anytime in her stall that she would get scared her nose would go in the corner.
Now 6 mths later, she could care less what i do in the stall, except when i touch her with the muck rake.
Shes super friendly, loves to be groomed and usually beats her mom when i come in to the pasture.
As far as leading now, she does fine. She lowers her head to halter, and respects my space.
I'm probably not the best owner for her, God knows i'm so inexperienced, but fact is, right now i'm all shes got. So we're kinda learning together.

[TX-WI]

That is a good idea but don't baby her thru situtions, work her thru them. Since you seem to have her leading fine and she seems to be the flighty type (my stud colt was this way and I had him from the time he was born), do some 'control' exercises with her so if she does try to run away from situation, you have control and her attention even when the boogers are present.

First you'll need control over her head and neck a bit. Doing head yeilds will do this. She probably fight ya bit over it, most do. Stand facing her side, place hand with excess lead on her hip, place hand closest to her head on her withers. You'll want to shorten the lead each time you do this to flex her head towards you. As soon as she 'gives' her head to the pressure, let go of the rope *do not let it slide thru your hand as she pull her head away -that would teach her to pull the rope. Drop it like it was a snake. Now she resist and even walk her hindquarters around but don't give until she yeilds. You'll want to achieve her nose touching her side willing and with suppleness. Repeat on the other side.

When you've got that achieved you can do hindquarter yeilds. Pm me if you are wanting to gain complete control with her confidence in you.

Each horse is different and must be approached as an individual in their training and teachings.
_________________
gdh

I've started an exercise program.
I do 20 sit-ups each morning.
That may not sound like a lot, but you can only hit that snooze button so many times

[Bindi]

Rebecca I think the fact that Jen posted meant that she was looking to get as much info as she could. Giving 'advise' is only a helpful tool. AND if you read my posts you would see that I said try lots of things to get to a result.
Of course if you took offence to any of my 'suggestions' then thats your absolute right. I would never assume that because someone asks for direction or suggestions that they didn't know 'anything'. I'm not condesending!!! The whole idea of a forum is to gather as much information as is extended and to try everything. The fact that someone posted a question means just that.

This is not a 'manual' its a forum..........we're here to offer help, encouragement and hints - thats all. I'm positive that Jen didn't take offense, and didn't think I was criticising her in the least. But I'm sad you did.......

Anyone who asks for suggestions and is prepared to do what it takes is not only committed to their horse, but is showing inititive.......fantastic...

Good luck Jen and keep trying everything.......Bindi in Oz

[Dawn]

I have found that horses that grow up "outside" are usually more sensible and less likely to spook than those that grow up in a stall and paddock. I believe it is because they get to stay in groups and grow up as "horses" and are exposed to alot of things out in the open, which they get to figure out how to react to on their own. If there is a place where you can turn your filly out (large pasture) start putting her out for part of the day with an older horse that can show her the ropes of how not to be afraid of every little thing. If this is not possible, then I suggest to try and start desensitizing her to as many things as possible, take her out alot, and let her see the world. I guess the last question on my mind is that if she is primarily living in a stall, what is she being fed and how much exercise does she get? If she is getting grain and not getting alot of exercise, what you might see as spooky is really just a confined horse feeling its oats so to speak. Good Luck

[jen39503]

The only time she's in her stall is when the weather dips below freezing. In the last 4 months shes been in maybe 4x.
Shes in a pasture with her dam and tina normally doesnt spook. When they lived in Texas they didnt have stalls, only a field cover.
We're going out today to see horse eating mailboxes and horse drowning ponds....should be fun, lol

[Pauline]

Jen my experience has been if you are expecting the horse to spook, they will find something to spook at. I find the horse senses if you are feeling nervous and they will react more if you show them your feeling. Just stay calm and do things slow, make the horse walk slower, and the reactions to thing will not be as extreme. I had an old arab who was horrified of garbage day (we call them killer garbage bags) I tried every thing, walking him up, showing him each and every bag, tried feeding him apples with plastic grocery bags in my other hand, nothing worked until I ignored the bags. He was still cautious but the ride became alot more relaxed when I became relaxed.
Just my two cents
Pauline