Appaloosa mottling

[Kathy]

Does mottling appear at foaling or come later? I had someone look at my QH/APP cross, and say that he could show mottling this spring. I thought they had it or don't...... All of the "little" bit of knowledge I have is more on QH, and I know even less about the APPY characteristics.

I have been told he is a blue roan, his coat consist of black, red and white hairs. He does have a very full black mane and tail. He is over 15 hands and turned 2 last month, January.

Now, we know he can not be registered, but I still want to give accurate info to people when they ask, especially at the 4-H shows and fair when kids are asking and learning. His color is a big one, people say, "I really like that black horse out there". I don't want them to think that color is black, it isn't. Is he being called blue roan by some because of the black hair?

HMMM, anyone have the answers? (I know someone does of course.) Thanks.

Thanks.

Kathy
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[Inyureye]

I'd like to know the answers too - I don't. I alwyas thought a blue roan was a black base with the roan gene. Red roan was a chestnut base, etc. I also was under the impression a blue roan would have black skin.
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[lisa]

mottled skin can come and go, it generaly gets more as a horse gets older. I have had them born without it and several years later it appears on the face muzzle or around the eyes. One thing about some appy, everytime they shed out in the spring they can be a differnt patteren/ color.


lisa

[DallasMN]

"Solid Colored" Appaloosas are very seldom born with the mottled skin. If one is, I would say it is almost a 100% guarantee that the foal will color out at a young age. My experience is that the mottled skin generally doesn't show up much until they are at least yearlings.

[whnywriter]

In more than four decades of exposure to Appaloosas, I have never personally seen:

Horses with absolutely no mottled skin ever developing it, or horses with mottled skin losing it. I owned a Mighty Bright granddaughter in the 80s that had little body color (a little frost over the hips and a few dark spots) and even less mottled skin (one pink spot about the size of my little finger's nail between her nipples). Over the years she developed both more body color and more mottled skin.

I've watch mottled skin appear first as a light grey patch that turns true pink over the course of a year. I've never seen it go the other way.

Sometimes, a horse like Goer would appear to have first more and then less mottled skin. It had more to do with his extremely thin hair coat than it did with gain or loss of mottled skin.

Remember...there is a huge difference between true mottled (or parti-colored) skin that Appaloosas have and the "pumpkin skin" that a lot of palominos and light sorrels have...just as there is a huge difference in Appaloosa striped hooves and the lightly striped hoofs of a lot of palominos and sorrels...and the white scelera that Appaloosas have and the "wild-eyed," "confused" white that a lot of Impressives have around their eyes.

Frank

[Pat Mefferd]

I'll ditto what Frank wrote. Pat
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[Calens Arabians]

Many colors are both confusing and misleading, one of the main reasons is that different folks call the same colors by different names. Another huge lead to this confusation is that folks rarely understand genetics enough to know what they are looking at, in fact even experts can be stumped. Many registries do not distinguish between the colors that much either, while other have three catagories for the same genetic color.
On to you question. You state that the horse has both white ticking in both black and red hairs. This sounds like a bay roan, sometimes called purple, or red or blue roan, all depends on the person describing the color. It could also be a brown with roan. Brown is a part of the Agouti complex which only effects the black pigment (producing bay by limiting the black, and brown by lightening the black). The other possible explanation for red and black hairs would be the effects of a dilute gene such as creme or champagne on black, plus the roan.
Champagne, Creme and Roan are all dominant genes, if a horse has the gene it will be expressed, AND the horse MUST have had at least one parent with the gene to get the gene.
Now, without looking at photos of this horse, and its parents, I cannot give you an accurate color description, only a guess.
Since you clearly state the horse looks black, my guess is that he is a brown roan, or a brown rabicano (rabicano doesn't often roan out as much as true/classic roan. True roan or Classic roan are both descriptive of genetic roan, a dominant gene I explained a bit above.) Rabicano sounds more likely for one reason- the horse looks black. Roan usually lightens the color enough to make it look blue, grey, pink, orange or lavendar, rabicano may not be appearant even from a couple of feet. Rabicano can skip generations too.
One other reason he may have white hairs throughout his coat is the appy pattern. I am not much versed in the appy patterns, but, I have seen apps who looked frosted, they could be described as 'roan', but, technically they were not. Some of the ones I have known did not look 'roan' until up close.

Hope that is a start.
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[Kathy]

Here is a picture of Max. I don't know if this message will come through with the picture or not, but here goes a try at it.

Color experts .....what is this called?
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[Kathy]

Well, the picture didn't come on, but that link will show you what Max looks like. Can you tell me what color he is considered? He is just 2 as of last month, so I am sure he will change a lot over the years, but is he a blue roan?

Thanks.

Kathy
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Horses = Sanity...ok ok, sometimes insanity, but for the most part....semi-sanity.

[dunappy]

ANY Gelding that Shows appaloosa characteristics that is NOT of draft or pony breeding can be hardhip registered with the ApHC so YES your gelding CAN be registered.

And He sort of looks like a grey to me. What color was his sire and dam.

[quote="Kathy"]Now, we know he can not be registered,

[Inyureye]

OT, sorry - DallasMN, what a handsome horse that is in your avatar - is that your horse?
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[Kathy]

Thanks, we will see if we can hardship him in. It would be a lot of fun to get him into some breed specific shows.

The only thing we were told about parents is the sire was white with black spots and the mare is chestnut.

He just turned 2 in January and is well over 15 hands. He has no clue how big he is and looks like he is in slow motion when he runs. It is beautiful.

Kathy
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Horses = Sanity...ok ok, sometimes insanity, but for the most part....semi-sanity.

[DallasMN]

Inyereye ... Yes, the photo in my avatar is a photo of our stallion, Loud And Clear. We are very pleased with him and the foals he is siring.

He has his ROM in both Halter and Most Colorful and was Hi-Point 2 Yr Old and 3 Yr Old Stallion in three different regional clubs.

His sire, Jill's Jack Sam, was bred by Mavis Peavy of Colorado and was her Appaloosa herd sire at the time of her dispersal sale. His pedigree is full of horses that were at the center of the Peavy breeding program - Peavy's Uncle Sam, Papoose Peavy, Due Claw, Gold Heels, and has 4 times traces to that famous Ding Bob x Papoose cross.

His dam, Sugar Date Bar, is a daughter of Bar Plaudit (by King Plaudit) and out of a Wapiti bred mare on the bottom.

[vodkarok91]

If neither of your horse's parents were grey, then he is roan - also, as his dam was sorrel, and not non-Appaloosa roan, your gelding should have Appaloosa roaning - he may continue to develop further colouring as he ages. Also, non-App roans tend to have dark heads and legs, with silvery hairs mixed throughout the body hair, whilst Appaloosa roaning has a different pattern, with light and dark hairs mixed in a mottled pattern all over the body, including the head.

Appaloosas also may have striped hooves, white sclera around the eyes, and mottled skin visible on lips, genitals etc.

Was the sire a registered Appaloosa? Is the mare a registered QH? If so, your gelding may be eligible for full ApHC registration - contact the association to find out. If the sire or dam was unreg, or you do not have paperwork, as a gelding you may still be able to ApHC register your horse as mentioned in one of the posts above. (Frank Holmes [whnywriter] participates on this board also and can answer any Appaloosa question you can think of!).

Cheers
Kerry Morgan

[summerhorse]

Many appaloosa leopards are actually greys. Do you have a current picture of the sire? Or his name/pedigree? Because the colt looks more grey than typical appy roaning. But the picture is not very clear on here. Do you have more?
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