LADY CHESTY AQHA

Pat Mefferd · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: LADY CHESTY AQHA

This is only a part of my research on LADY CHESTY, the dam of COLIDA. I like Tracy and probably many others, traced the sires as well as her foals.

LADY CHESTY’S (1947 mare) documented produce record:

1957 Colida ApHC 7681 x Unnamed.
Bred by Rhodes Bros. O/R R. Marcussen, Ill.

1958 Chesty Sam AQHA 99962 x Snooper M 1455 (bay).
Bred by Harold Cox, Crothan, Ill.. O – Russell Marcussen & Sons, Ill.

1961 Bloodworth’s Apachito T15645 x Apache Boy 3551.
Bred by R. Marcussen, Ill.

1964 MS Lady Beck T65065 x Indian Agent T7911.
Bred by R. Marcussen, Ill.

1965 MS Hi Love T65066 x MS Little Brother T15643.
Bred by R Marcussen, Ill.

1966 Marc’s Ladd AQHA 420916 x Illini Americano 141066.
Bred by R. Marcussen, Ill.

1967 Marc’s Lady Jill AQHA 520450 x Illini Americano 141066.
Bred by R Marcussen, Ill.

NO registered foals for the years 1950, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 59, 60.

WHAT was she doing the first 10 years of her life…a usin’ horse? No official AQHA race or show record.

Note: ApHC information from official ApHC records. AQHA information from official AQHA records.

Compiled by PM MEFFERD Pedigree Research (Pat Mefferd)
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Pat Mefferd, PM MEFFERD Pedigree Research, Anderson, CA. (Retired)
Proud daughter of Fred Kennedy (1982 Stuntmans Hall of Fame)
http://members.tripod.com/~horsefame/fredkennedy.html

Trinityapp · Yearling Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 18

[quote="Pat Mefferd"]This is only a part of my research on LADY CHESTY, the dam of COLIDA. I like Tracy and probably many others, traced the sires as well as her foals.

LADY CHESTY’S (1947 mare) documented produce record:

>WHAT was she doing the first 10 years of her life…a usin’ horse? No official AQHA race or show record.

Supposedly she was being bushtrack raced. Various reports say that she was quite the ball of fire in her day, but by the time Russell bought her she had leg injuries that prevented further racing. Russell sold her to a buyer in Canada and I lost track of her from that time.
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Tracy Meisenbach
www.trinityapp.com

x factor fan · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:56 am Post subject:

Any known photos of her appaloosa foals?

Or what kind of blanket pattern did they have?

She's got a lot of King ranch breeding. Are the King ranch horses known for throwing crop out appys? Or crop out anythings?

Pat Mefferd · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:44 am Post subject:

X...Please refer to my new post "The King Ranch Horses, is there a link to Appaloosa's? Pat
_________________
Pat Mefferd, PM MEFFERD Pedigree Research, Anderson, CA. (Retired)
Proud daughter of Fred Kennedy (1982 Stuntmans Hall of Fame)
http://members.tripod.com/~horsefame/fredkennedy.html

x factor fan · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:27 am Post subject:

Ok, where is the new post? Is it a new subject or one inside one of the ongoing threads? Honest I looked before asking this question, and didn't spot this.

Pat Mefferd · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:53 am Post subject:

Sorry...I had an interuption, it is now posted...Pat
_________________
Pat Mefferd, PM MEFFERD Pedigree Research, Anderson, CA. (Retired)
Proud daughter of Fred Kennedy (1982 Stuntmans Hall of Fame)
http://members.tripod.com/~horsefame/fredkennedy.html

SaltRiverApps · Weanling Joined: 03 Nov 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Arizona

Ms Lady Beck out of Lady Chesty by Indian Agent

MS Hi Love

Lady Chesty at 20

From the January 1976 Appaloosa News.
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Sonja

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

There's no such thing as a "crop-out" Appaloosa. Any Appaloosa with a legitimate pedigree has to have an unbroken line...and unbroken thread...of at least parti-colored skin AND marginal color.

Two solid horses without at least the above two characteristics cannot produce an Appaloosa.

Frank Holmes
Kiowa, CO

SaltRiverApps · Weanling Joined: 03 Nov 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Arizona

Agreed.
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Sonja

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

Holy cow Sonja...I'm not used to ANYONE agreeing with me on this subject. Several people on this message board feel strongly that Appaloosas "just happen;" that an Appaloosa with NO Appaloosa ancestors can "crop out" as if by magic.

I don't and neither do a SINGLE one of the scores of pioneer Appaloosa breeders who I have become acquainted with over the years. This is not an overstatement...it's the way they feel to a man/woman (hats off to one of my dearest friends, Laura Boggio Brest).

Frank

SaltRiverApps · Weanling Joined: 03 Nov 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Arizona

If appaloosas just happened, we would see it "cropping" up in other breeds.
History doesn't support this.

The current theory under discussion is that it takes a combination of PATN genes and Lp genes to make an appaloosa.

That theory offers the possibility of colored foals out of solid parents as follows:
Take one solid parent with a PATN gene.
Breed it to another other solid parent with an Lp gene.
A blanketed foal is born.

However, it is my understanding that the Lp horse should still have parti-color skin, even if it is very minimal.

The theory says the PATN gene works like the bay gene. PATN without Lp has no appaloosa color, like AAee will not be a bay.

If I have misunderstood the current research thoughts, someone please correct me.
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Sonja

x factor fan · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:40 am Post subject:

You are correct as to the current feeling in the genetic community. However the old time appy fanciers are still fighting this tooth and nail.

According to the most recent news, LP has been found, and a test is in the works.

I think the major problem with the two gene theory is folks not understanding "minimal expression" .

So to get an appy, you need the pattern from one side, and LP from the other. The pattern without LP is a plain solid horse.

LP in the most common form has the striped hooves, mottled skin...

However some horses have a very minimal express of LP, and can appear as solid horses. LP can also be hidden by other patterns. or be very slow to develop. Giving rise to the whole "crop out" phenomenon.

I actually agree with Frank, that LP needs to be present. The disagreement is in whether there is minimal expression in the breed.

The paper when published should be interesting to read.

Love to know if Birdcatcher spots are some form of minimal LP in a breed without pattern?

Pan Zareta · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject:

As I understand it phenotypic observations indicate that in certain Appaloosa lineages genotype at the extension and agouti loci have a significant effect on the expression of white patterning.

x factor fan · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject:

Base coat color seems to affect expression. Also the presence of modifiers like Sabino.

The other things that the Appaloosa project folks seems to be seeing is inbreeding affecting color expression. My understanding at the time--and I don't know if they've seen other results to counter this-- is that when there are two of the same chromosome present, there are modifiers that get set to the "off" position.

Using TB's as an example, the was a palomino TB named Milkie. He has a cremello descendant named Guaranteed Gold. Both parents get their cream gene from Milkie, so both of the chromosome pair come from the same source.

There is at least one line of Arabians that have the white eye love to have those guys tested too. Also Andalusians and Lipizzaners.

Pan Zareta · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject:

How inbred were the Appaloosas they were looking at? Even in a 1x2, recombination should preclude receipt of two chromosomes, intact and unchanged, from the same source. But inbreeding would markedly enhance the chance of receiving base coat color genes (and color modifiers) from the same source.