Seeking advise for breeding prospects

[bfre49849]

I'm researching potential prospects for my mare, Solano Double D Boss. She has lines going back to Doc's Solano, Doc Bar, Tee Jay Roman, Jackie Bee, Montleon, Croton Oil, Leo, King, Poco Bueno, Poco Tivio, Nero Wolfe, etc. I am contemplating breeding her to either APHA or AQHA registered and am interested in a great working/cow prospect with a bit of show potential. Chrome would be an added bonus! I look forward to the varied opinions of the forum posters. Thanks!!

[horsewoman1965]

with the market being what it is, just shop for exactly what you want.
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RMT Paints
Home of Joys San Skip

[Lmac]

Hi, I'm new to this board . . .but we really like how our Triples Titan horse has crossed on our Doc Bar, Colonel Freckles mares. You might look for a Triples Image horse. He had the chrome, cow and halter mix.

[JR]

[bfre49849]

Here's some additional information and related questions...

Our mare appears to be a sorrel (she's purdy durn red with narely an off-color mark). EXCEPT, her tail is made up of at least 50 - 60% black hairs intermixed with red and lighter golden hair. Her mane is all red. She comes from a line of grays (F1, P2, P3, F4) with a smattering of bays, sorrels and a token dun in the first 5 generations. I'm not sure why some black would be showing through if she is true ee (even if she was AA). She is 8 Y.O. and isn't showing any signs of graying. Can the Gg heterozygote cause such a phenomenon in redheads?

Any of you backyard equine geneticists have an hypothesis to offer?

F1 = Dam
P2 = Grandsire
P3 = Great Grandsire
F4 = Great Grea Granddam

[horsetrainer89]

The best sire for that would be Smart Chic OLena. He is a great all around sire that has produced great reiners, cutters, and working cow horses. His stud fee is up there, but it is worth every penny.

[one okie gal]

Be sure to do your genetic testing. No reason to spend that kind of money and still produce HERDA carriers. Ditto for the newer genetic problems being studied at UC Davis that seem to trace back to a specific, as yet publically unidentified QH family. Testing for your mare and testing for the sire line as well.

Just for ideas, why not look at Docs Tejon. He is listed on the pedigree page and you can look at the progeny list and Stoney Creek Farm has a web page with information. It makes no sense to breed a horse with a family tree that looks like a straight stick. If you limit the gene pool that severely, then whatever is not good is certainly going to start showing up in an unfavorable way.

There are many fine studs out there. Look for one who has offspring that are not limited to only one discipline, but also look for offspring that excel in the areas in which you want to compete.

[EAhola]

Hmmm.....

I breed my unproven mare(s) to the best stud I can afford. I always shop the auctions. There are a number of studs that didn't get bought that are still available. Some really nice ones.

I believe there are still good options in the NCHA youth auction, NRHA, Working Cow Horse, Della Hillerman's OK auction, Pacific Coast CHA, .....

For the best stud what I'm looking for is one that has quite a number of performance offspring from stock mares with high average earnings. Never settle for brothers unless they too are equally proven. I know I'm a lot different than my sister. Don't fall for that.

Look for a stud with a STRONG dam line. Something that crosses nicely on your mare without doing too much of a bad cross like Doc O'lena.

Do your homework and maybe this year isn't the time to breed. Research and get ready for next year. You don't want to breed your mare and wish you hadn't.

A lot of studs are now double registered with AQHA and another bred since AQHA has lowered some of their rules.

I'm not sure if you mentioned your mares name but Hillerman still has Tamulena (oldie), Dos Palomino, Kodo, Smart Quick Merada, Abrakadabracre, Stone Cold Cat, Blessed Twice, Kit Dual (GREAT GREAT horse for incentives / don't forget about this), Lizzys Gotta Player, and Smokin Trona left. Last time I looked NYCHA had some nice studs left too.

These are all cow related studs because that's where my interests are.

Good Luck
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Built To Work ~ Built To Win
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www.CircleBar5A.com

[Lmac]

I agree with taking a close look at a strong dam line. That is pretty much what our own program centers around. Our stallion's dam had over 1800 performance points and over 300 halter points besides other titles -- they said she was a real "people's horse", and I see that in her son and his offspring. And, it is the good mind, or willingness to try anything that makes them versatile. I am hoping this will make his daughters great crosses for the more well known stallions.

Kind of depends on what you want to do with your foal. Breed shows, Association shows, or marketability for selling? As a Paint breeder, I pretty much require the stallion to be in the Breeders Trust. Unless, it is a reiner and then I will overlook that for the right horse. There's also the Kentucky incentives, if you want to jump through the hoops.

There are a lot of great stallion auctions . . . many who a little later in the season discount them even more (Dixie Land Paint Horse Club). . . and a person needs to look at the different futurities and incentives if you are wanting to sell your baby. I know many reiners want foals that are NRBC eligible.

But for the chrome, I would suggest a couple of these:
Mark This Spot -- his foals have been doing well in reining; He's a World Champion in Reining and Western Pleasure. Out of the good paint mare Cactus Christy.
Big Chex To Cash -- he is double registered APHA/AQHA. He is hot, I believe he is already booked solid and most of his foals have been sold.
Helluva Chex -- another Nu Chex To Cash son that is APHA/AQHA. He is also enrolled in the Kentucky Breeders Incentive.
Spooks Gotta Gun -- By Grays Starlight and out of Katie Gun - he is also APHA/AQHA registered.

It is a wide open market -- sometimes you can even get free breedings with the right mare. . .

We bred a few of our mares to outside stallions this year, and it was a hard choice to make . . there are a lot of good ones out there. I think the bottom line just centers around what you want to do with your foal and how much you want to spend.

[cgipson]

You have a fun decision to make - all of the horses everyone suggested are very good but I didn't see anyone suggest the horse that just was the winner in the Worlds Greatest Horseman contest - plus I can't remember exactly what he's won in the NRCHA contests but I believe he is a Futurity Champion with alot of $$ in earnings. His name is Topsails Reinmaker - he is a gorgeous sorrel with just a little chrome but he has it all. He is a gorgeous horse.

I would suggest my very very good horse - Hollywood White, who would absolutely (100%) give you color - but he never showed in anything but the NRHA and you want a cowhorse. The Shining Sparks and Smart Chic Olenas are excellent and always known as horses that crossover - and the Nu Chex to Cash as well.

You will have a fun time deciding who to use.

[Lmac]

Yep, the choices are endless . . . I love your Hollywood White horse! Your Half Arabians are also so gorgeous!!

I had forgotten about the Worlds Greatest Horseman contest -- but that is a great place to start looking . . . it's so nice to see horses and horsepeople who can do so much . . . they make it look so easy.

I was trying to think of some other options . . .
A Master Plan - he has a lot of nice NRCHA performers.
Steady Tradition -- he throws a lot of chrome.
Master Jay - but I think he's in Australia now.
Soula Jule Star - I think I spelled that right -- but he's a Grays Starlight horse I've always liked, but I haven't kept up with his foals.

Yep - it's like sitting in front of a huge smorgasbord . . .Good luck!

[bfre49849]

I wanted to take a moment to thank all of those who have replied to my post. As an update, I'm still scratching my head and noodling over all of the prospects. I think the one who opined I was up for some fun had it pegged.

Also, genetics results came back and my mare is eeaann HYPP nn and HERDA nn. So, she's sorrel with no agouti or dilution factor that isn't carrying HYPP or HERDA. The stud will obviously have a huge say in the outcome!

[cgipson]

bfre49849 - You will have to let us all know who you choose. Looking at stallions is one of my favorite pastimes!

Lmac - Thanks for the nice words about our Hollywood White Half Arabs - but they have nothing on our Quarter Horse babies by Holllywood White. Here are a couple photos of our first foal of the year - a palomino/dun filly - and by the way all of my own QH foals by HW this year have all been palomino/duns, however we have at least 5 more to go so I'm sure we'll get a buckskin or two.

Here's Rosebud's filly -

[bfre49849]

WOW - she's an awesome looking filly!!! How old is she? Is she for sale?

Who is Rosebud? I'd like to compare her pedigree to my mare. Also, what do you know of Hollywood's genotype? Rosebuds?

Thanks a ton!!!

[Lmac]

WOW is right!! She is nice!! What a lovely color, not to mention body! Great pictures too!

Yep, I like your QH babies as well . . .but it's nice to see some pretty Half Arabs -- I've never really been around them, but I think they are gaining more popularity. I know I've seen more ads in the Pinto magazines with some pretty half arabs.

I'm like you - I love to look at all the different stallions -- try and think how each would cross. Does Hollywood White throw much in the way of 2" of white?? That seems to be my challenge, but considering my stallion is all QH bloodlines and most my mares are QH, or eligible for QH papers, I can't complain. But still, the breeding stocks, or solid paint breds are my Achilles Heel.

But, as long as a person can still get a pretty palomino or buckskin, then you still have a secondary market. I'll sure have to add your boy to my list!!