Breeding palomino to palomino Question...

[harryapache]

Hi there. I'm hoping someone can help me out. I have a golden palomino Quarter Horse mare that I am looking at breeding this year. Both stallions I have picked out are palomino as well (Winning Colors and JMK In Reality) and I'm wondering what the chances are of getting a cremello. I am hoping to get a palomino of course:) Also I don't know if this matters but my mare sometimes gets white roan hairs on her coat during the winter. She also has a lot of gray and palomino in her background. Her mother was sorrel and her father was palomino.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Oh and if you need it my mare's name is Jamup Yellow Rose.

Thanks a bunch!

Alisa

[ccpearl]

Since both parents carry one dilute gene, you have a 25% chance of a cremello....someone please correct me if I am wrong.

As for the other three potential colourings....I will leave that to someone who has a better understanding of the genetics of the colours...it all eludes me sometimes and I keep meaning to get up to speed with it all....especially as I have a cremello colt, I should be able to tell people what potential colours they will get out of their mares if he serves them

When we get a more knowledgable response, I promise I will pay attention

[missmagus]

If you use a palomino stallion and a palomino mare - the results would be - 25% chance of a cremello, 25% chance of a sorrel and 50%chance of a palomino.

So remember unless you absolutely don't want a double dilute - this would be the mating to have the type with the second highest chance possible of the resulting foal being a palomino. The mating where it is assured is a cremello to a sorrel - that will result in a palomino - however if you use a perlino instead it can be either a palomino or buckskin!
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[JOHN]

The odds listed arre correct but a few years ago we bred 4 palominos and 2 buckskins to our palomino stallion and got 1 palomino and 5 cremello's.

Might be a good idea to find out just how many palomino's are in these horses pedigree's

I have 2 palomino stallions, one that would probably get you a nice palomino but the other has both parents, palominos and would nearly certainly get you the cremello.

I hope you get lucky,
John

[missmagus]

John -

In your group it just happened that on 5 of the foals that you got the 25% chance of both parents giving their dilute gene happened.

No one should attempt breeding two dilutes (palomino to palomino or to buckskin,etc) as you have to know that there is a 25% chance of getting a double dilute. There are better and absolute ways to get a palomino if that's what you are attempting to do. Double dilutes are great - and now it seems that their value has gone up as well.
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[JOHN]

WE DID BREED ONE OF THE MARES BACK A COUPLE YEARS LATER AND GET A SORREL THOUGH.

[harryapache]

I apologize - did you mean there isn't a better way of getting a palomino (by breeding palomino to palomino?)

From what I am understanding there is a risk of getting a cremello from breeding palomino to palomino but if I'm willing to risk it it's still the best way (highest possibility) of getting a palomino.

Thanks for all the help!

Alisa

[missmagus]

harryapache -

Sorry if my post was a bit confusing. You will ABSOLUTELY get a palomino if you breed a sorrel to a cremello (only a cremello - which is a dilute of red) - if you bred a sorrel to a perlino (dilute of black/bay) you could get a palomino or a buckskin - either one.

Breeding a palomino to a palomino you will have a50% chance of palomino, you would have a 25% chance of getting a sorrel, and a 25% chance of a cremello.
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[missmagus]

John -

If you were trying for palomino the dice weren't rolling your way - that's why it is a gamble that you have to know the odds on.

As I said if someone wants only palominos - the VERY BEST way is a sorrel to a cremello, that is a guaranteed palomino - otherwise you will end up with all those other colors - it's just the odds of the game!

With my perlino stallion - I bred the same mare - a sorrel - to him 3 times. I've gotten all colts - but two chocolate palominos and one buckskin/dun. All beautiful colors but different from the same mare. It's not because of the mare it's because the stallion carries the gene to make her foals buckskin so he passes it 50% of the time as he's not homozygous.
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[harryapache]

No problem Missmagus! Your emails have been very helpful. I just have one more question. Do you think that the fact that my mare gets white roan hairs in the winter increases my chances of getting a cremello? Or do you just go by the odds regardless of roaning and the number of palominos in their pedigrees, etc.

[missmagus]

harryapache -

Your mare could have every horse in her pedigree palomino and it wouldn't change the odds at all. With color - it is the genes your mare carries (which were passed to her by her dam and sire) but it is only her genes that she passes to her foal that matters. The roaning hairs don't matter either - now if she were a roan - which a palomino can be as it's another set of genes that determines that - but what you are concerned with is her base color - she could have the dun gene, a roan gene - it doesn't matter as we're talking about her base color. Those other genes overlay the base color. So she will pass a color gene for the base color to her foal and the sire will pass a gene which will combine with hers and determine what the color of the foal will be.

Every horse has two genes for their base color - one from the sire and one from the dam. A palomino has one red gene and one dilute. So depending on which of her color genes your mares passes and which the sire passes - that's what determines the color of the foal.
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[Inyureye]

[missmagus]

Hey - Inyureye - Very good.

Inyureye - I love your Avatar!!!! Is that you riding?
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[Inyureye]

Thanks, Missmagus, no! Certainly not me! I am at work and would have to go an look up the name of the person- and the horse - that is a very famous old photo of a very famous horse - might have held a world record for height - that's a 7 foot something jump - and a famous rider on that horse. For jumpers folks, that picture is a sight to behold, and probably makes up a wall poster in numerous young teens' bedrooms as they aspire to the USET or something. Can you imagine the balls it would take to ride up to that wall and believe your horse would go over it? Man. Love that pic.
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[Inyureye]

Thought I would add, that photo was submitted on another BB as an excellent example of a long release - notice how the rider's arms and elbows are in line straight to the horse's mouth - a straight line throught the riens. Another way of handling a jump is to do a "crest release", which is a way of bridging your riens across the horse's neck and leaning on them, if you are not capable of holding yhour upper body balanced enough over the jump to keep from hitting your horse in the mouth when he jumpts - needs to be able to have his head and neck free of being "snatched" - and besides the remarkable jump its self, the equitation - the rider's position, balance, leg, release, are all to die for adn aspire towards, even over a 3 foot jump, so this is really quite some pic.
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