Marion's Girl's colt

warchief · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:21 am Post subject:

Frank.

I posted the original question because I heard it somewhere. It is on this database, but that isn't where I originally heard it. I was curious and decided to check it out. i'm begening to wish I hadn't

Warchief

Picapepper · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:30 am Post subject:

Hang in there, Frank.

I actually enjoyed reading this thread.
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whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

Warchief,

I'm not at all upset over the thread; just curious. This is the type of historical research and discussion that I enjoy. If Marion's Girl ever did produce a croput Paint that then went on to have an NCHA record, it seems to me that the APHA would have jumped all over it.

Frank Holmes

Linda_D · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject:

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

If you haven't already, you guys (and gals) need to go out and buy Legends 8. According to my research, Marion's Girl was sold by her breeder (Clarence Scarbauer) to Marion Flynt and placed in training with Buster Welch in the spring or summer of her 3-year-old year. This doesn't leave much time to get bred, have a foal and have it weaned. I seriously doubt the whole Paint cropout thing.

Frank Holmes
Kiowa, CO

Linda_D · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:29 am Post subject:

warchief · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:44 am Post subject:

In checking the horses listed as being out of Marion's Girl's daughter against the APHA database, those I found all had 3 things in common.

1 they were all sired by a Quarter Horse

2 Their second dams were all unknown

3 They were all (dare I say it ) TOBIANOS

Linda_D · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:48 am Post subject:

warchief · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:02 am Post subject:

According to the database her foal was by Royal King. Pulling her up I got a list of her foals. There is nothing said about her coloring, but since both parents would have been AQHA that would have made her a non tobiano

Linda_D · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:10 am Post subject:

I don't have access to the APHA database, but on All Breed, a mare called "Paint Mare 234" is alleged to be by Royal King out of Marion's Girl by Silver Wimpy.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/paint+mare234

The notes say: "Named Marions King or the Paint Mare. Also was a Cutting Horse. 2,387 in earnings from years 1953 to 1957. Father is Royal King."

I don't believe this. The mare was supposed to be foaled in 1951, and she started earning money as a cutting horse as a two year old? I think $2300+ in earnings would have been a goodly amount in the mid 1950s -- this mare would have been well known. The person who entered this in the All Breed DB is just repeating tales he/she heard.

As for the "Paint Mare234" progeny on this DB, it seems that the DB is picking up this mare as the dam of other horses. She supposedly produced 3 different horses by 3 different sires as a 2 year old in 1953 -- while earning money as a cutting horse.

I think this garbled tale may be confusing/linking a couple of noted cutting mares from the 1950s: Marion's Girl (AQHA) and the Paint mare Calamity Jane. They would have been contemporaries, Marion's Girl foaled in 1948 and Calamity Jane in 1949, and both would have hailed from Texas. Calamity Jane was a black tobiano by a son of George Clegg.

whnywriter · Active Member Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 429

Linda,

Your notes are interesting. That said, I don't see any confusion stemming from Marion's Girl and Calamity Jane. They both have well documented histories and those histories don't intersect.

I do agree with several of the posts that this whole subject was started by someone who posted fictional and/or totally un-verifable data.

I guess my next question would be...if indeed Marion's Girl was bred to Royal King when she was a 2-year-old (which is, to me, a total fairy tale), then where does the tobiano pattern come from.

For those people who cling to this types of debates in hopes of creating controversy, I guess the next theory to raise its ugly head would be that Royal King and/or Marion's Girl were really "supressed tobianos."

War Chief...I went on the APHA Paint Plus feature and can't find the supposed Marion's Girl Paint daughter. Can you give me her name?

Frank Holmes
Kiowa, CO

warchief · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject:

I found no evidence of any foals out of Marion's Girl in the APHA database. The only place I've found anything about it is in this database. I don't remember where I first heard about it, but I can't find any evidence that there actually was one.

warchief · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject:

If this phantom foal had NCHA winnings wouldn't they have some kind of record?

Linda_D · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject:

warchief · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject:

This database shows the name as Marions King or The Paint Mare

(Marions King ?)